I had a comment in my last post asking what the current “on paper” best Beast Master raiding spec is.
Now as a forewarning, I do not have access to all these pretty spreadsheets everyone else uses. I’m on Linux, so no Excel for me. And the Open Office versions lack a lot of functionality. =P
That said, I have been lurking the Beast Master threads on Elitist Jerks, and the one spec that keeps coming up is 53/11/7 or some very similar variant (such as swapping out Improved Mend Pet for Spirit Bond– no real difference on your DPS).
I was extremely wary about this at first. Give up 5/5 Mortal Shots and a point in Go for the Throat? I mean, I’d swapped out Improved Arcane Shot for Improved Tracking a while back, having been sold on it based on my own testing, but was Survival Instincts really that worth it? The Mortal Shots change was the one that scared me the most, although eventually I managed to talk myself into it with the logic that my pet was 50% of my damage (which Mortal Shots doesn’t effect) and my Auto Shot is 50% of my personal damage (which Mortal Shots doesn’t effect) and my crit hovers around 30% so that’s 70% of special shots that Mortal Shots doesn’t effect… and etc. So, while I resisted for a while, I recently made the plunge.
My ten-man Naxx a few days back with my new spec went very well, and then yesterday I got into a 25man OS.
4922 DPS on one of the drakes. Using Wash the raptor, and 53/11/7.
For you guys that are in diehard raiding guilds and are in 25man gear, that’s probably not a big deal. For Pike who still considers 10man Naxx to be challenging and fun and is toting around a couple blues, it’s a big deal.
The other two hunters had 4800 and 4300 respectively; they were both Survival and outgeared me. To be fair, the 4800 guy was usually a smidge ahead of me on all the other fights. But no, this fight was mine, all mine, and it was glorious.
More importantly I was sold on the spec. Survival Instincts? Makes me crit more, and when I crit more, Cobra Strikes procs more, and when Cobra Strikes procs more, Wash’s Savage Rend crits more and his damage is increased by 10%. That thing was critting left and right and it was awesome. Not only that, but I was keeping a careful eye on Wash’s focus, and I never saw him focus starved. Not once. 1/2 Go for the Throat + Bestial Discipline for great justice!
My recommendation: give 53/11/7 a whirl and see what you think! Afterall, it’s only as good as it works for you. Though I think you will have a good experience with it.
Now some of you are no doubt scratching your heads and wondering why the heck I am trying to maximize BM DPS when SV is still all the rage despite the fact that the difference is much smaller now (and may become even smaller if the 3.1.2 Lock and Load change is a nerf and not a wording fix.) If you are wondering that, you will probably have to continue wondering it and just smile and nod, because my head is kind of an odd creature when it comes to this and chances are if you don’t really understand it now, nothing I can say would change that! Suffice to say that I’m the girl who very happily raided Karazhan for eight months back in BC and is very merrily raiding Naxx now, with little to no motivation to raid anything harder, who would rather have minipets over gear and would rather see her screen filled up with an amalgamation of both hunter and pet crits than be the top of the DPS every time… who still likes to see herself performing well in Recount.
That, my friends, is just how I roll.
It may not be a nerf to LnL. There was some speculation around that any periodic damage might be able to proc the buff, due to the ambiguous wording. Obviously, getting LnL to proc off of Serpent Sting would be a pretty big dps boost.
Hmm… good point. *edits post*
Nice job on OS. thats some pretty nasty damage. I just raided It last night and snagged a Ilustration of the Dragon Soul for my Disc priest. I’m pretty happy about it since it was my first dive into 25 man content haha.
You didn’t mention your dps on Saph himself, was it because one of those invisible flaming walls got you again?
@TheKunkel – grats on your loot!
And nah, everyone survived, Sarth is just kind of a bad benchmark for DPS tests because you’re running around, pulling your pet in and out, killing adds, etc. I wanna say I was 3000ish on Sarth? So was everyone else though =P
Pike:
Recent reader to your blog, and I love it.
I, personally, play a ret pally. However, my sister (whom I play with constantly) is a BM spec hunter. She has been struggling with DPS for a while now, not hardly getting over 1400 in heroics, Maybe getting 2k in a 10 man raid boss.
I think I will refer her to this spec. Her spec is similar, but I can see some points where she is taking a talent or two in the wrong spot.
I would like to know, however, what glyphs would benefit her the most. I can’t seem to find a resource for that anywhere.
Thanks!
@ Firespirit – My major glyphs are: Serpent Sting, Steady Shot, and Bestial Wrath, and my minor glyphs (less important) are Mend Pet, Feign Death, and Revive Pet. I have some glyph post up here and here explaining my choices in further detail.
I would also be curious to see her rotation since that would be another big factor in DPS. With the aforementioned glyphs, a BM hunter will want to keep Serpent Sting up at all times, and then fire off Arcane Shot and Multishot when they are off cooldown, and Steadies inbetween. ^_^
if they are talking of any periodic damage then its a buff, but if the periodic damage still refers to black arrow and immolation trap, then its a huge nerf. I haven’t been playing my hunter in raids lately, but in heroics and on a dummy, I already noticed a marked decrease in my lock and load procs – and she’s pretty well geared :/ this might just mark our guild’s hunters switching to BM or marks permanently..
Wow, nice DPS! Which drake was that on?
My guild only do 10 man raids and I’ve only approached that kind of DPS on the drake which has adds, so I can use Volley for loads of damage. I am (and have always been) an MM hunter but I’m happy to see BM making a come back – In an ideal world, I’d like all 3 builds to DPS the same so people can just pick what that enjoy the most 🙂
@ Valilor – it was on Vesperon!
@ Leah – I don’t want any tree to be nerfed so badly that nobody uses it anymore. Hopefully that doesn’t happen to SV or any other hunter spec.
Pike, you commented “Now some of you are no doubt scratching your heads and wondering why the heck I am trying to maximize BM DPS when SV is still all the rage…”
Well, it’s not the DPS but the way that you do it. The specs are much closer in damage now than they used to be, so what matters more is how you deliver that DPS. BM is all about the bad-ass pet, Marksman is the artillery and SV brings the DoTs and crit procs.
Hunter players now at least can play the spec they like the best and maintain reasonably competitive DPS.
I miss playing my BM spec, but after the Great BM Nerf, I did switch specs and realised that I really, really sucked at BM. I have serious pet control/mortality issues and, well, that’s bad for a BM Hunter!
I am new to the Hunter class and recently found this blog.
I was curious to see that you raided with a Raptor, I was under the impression that Devilsaur was the best DPS pet am I wrong?
@ Simpatico – Devilsaurs are the best DPS pet for Beast Masters, yes. But I think raptors are cuter. So I use a raptor. ^_^
The specs are edging closer- MM and BM benefit most from armor pen, which is being stacked heavily on Ulduar gear. It’s only a matter of time until one or both of them catch up to SV, which will make spec a pure playstyle decision. That will make a lot of people happy.
I was going to inquire about your rotation, but I see you commented on it here.
This is what I needed to hear. I took a month off and the itch is back. I loved BM since it came out, but at 80 played with SV to see what the fuss was. I’m so glad to hear the BM is cranking out some numbers again. Can’t wait to test this 🙂
I’m surprised that Wash is not “red icon” angry for having just 1 Go for the throat. 🙂
I thought that 2/2 is a must be for BM
Damage is good! Wow. The best spec, imho, has always been the one you have the most fun with–as you obviously have! That being said, I look forward to the day when all the specs are pretty much equal in terms of overall dps–it’ll just be the chosen style that differs, so that everyone can be happy. (I am sad, though, that rather than “normalizing” specs, they sort of flattened the pets instead into three little pot pies, ready-baked except for family ability. D: The talent trees are cool, but I’m going to mourn that my dear wolf isn’t all-purpose any more.)
I can’t wait to start playing again soon, but I’ll have a lot to learn! I’m taking studious notes. And at least I have plenty of hunt-alts to experiment with. ^_^ One MM, one BM, and my main is…well, probably always going to be weird. Cheers!
Not raiding as the flavor-of-the-xpac DPS spec?! Pike, how terrible of you! You’d be completely alone in that regard!
Heeheehee enjoy it 😀
TYVM!!!
Not just an answer but a post with some discussion on it. And I thought I might get flamed for asking lol.
Thanks again!
Payne (Madoran)
Hi Pike !
I specced this yesterday evening (except I took 1 point in Mend Pet and 1 point in Spirit Bond). I changed it because I thought my dps was a little bit crappy for my gear (I had the spec with only 1 point in Cobra Strike).
In the process, with the same gear, same pet, same pet’s spec, same boss but a different BM spec, I went from 2160 dps to 2750… And the raid buffs where less good in the second one, so yes, big upgrade !
And I’m again top dps hunter of my guild, not being the best stuffed and the other being survival. \o/
I’m a happy BM hunter !
@ Payne – you’re quite welcome! And no worries about getting flamed here, I try my best to make everyone’s stay comfortable =P
@ Nefernet – I’m glad to hear it!
Which drake did you get that DPS on?
Hey Pike,
One of your fellow BM spec holdouts here. I’ve been rocking 53/18/0 since I hit 80 but I must say I am gonna have to try this one out next time I roll into a Heroic. Though i’m gonna have to modify it a bit to make up for my hit rating until I get some better gear. I can’t bring myself to drag my devilsaur into instances, especially after hunting down my spirit beast
yesterday i was doing reg voa and there was this SV hunter in my raid who was doing malicious MALICIOUS damage. he was dishing out like 3.8 K against the the stone watcher and obviously he topped the dps meter. i’m specced BM and only made 2.2 K and was second on the dps meters… his gear was very, very good though.
Pike you are too humble. 4922 rocks no matter what you’re geared/specced. I mean, that’s all I could muster on Loatheb last night, lol!
😉
I’ll be looking forward to trying Beastmastery properly when this week’s hunter gets up there. I’m an unashamed noob and my Tauren is only Lvl 24 after my first 3 days but I’m having fun grinding up there. Glad I found this site though: it will all be usefull stuff in time.
That’s awesome damage. Absolutely beautiful. I hope I don’t get flamed for asking this but, what’s your shot rotation?
I can’t get nowhere near HALF that dps when I’m on BM. Damn, even with my surv spec I can’t get near that much!
Also, why not completely ditch Mortal Shots for that extra Go For The Throat and get a point in Spirit Bond (which might give you some extra breathing space)?
I have contemplated switching back to BM… it’s my old home, so to speak… and I’d like to find the spirit beast.
this post may have convinced me to try it out again. 🙂
Fitz
Francisco, you don’t really need more than 1 point in Go For The Throat, particularly when you’ve also got Bestial Discipline. The extra crit from Survival Instincts works here to keep your pet’s focus up.
Spirit Bond, yeah, I get a bit sad when I see BM builds without it as I love that talent, but for a focused DPS build 2 in Mortal Shots will net more damage. Of course, you will lose lots of DPS if your pet dies, and Spirit Bond certainly helps with keeping your pet up, so it sort of depends at how well you do in this area. If you have fantastic pet control and maintenance skill then Spirit Bond is really not of any use, but if you struggle with this, SB is handy (but if this is true, then BM may not be the best spec to choose… something I realised for myself when I switched to Marksman).
@ Valilor – Look up! =D I answered earlier. It was Vesperon. I was hitting about 4300-4500 on the other drakes.
@ Fritzgar – I was 53/18/0 for a looong time and it’s a good spec. But I think this one is rather better. *nods*
@ Francisco – you need two points in Mortal Shots to get to Go for the Throat anyway, as GftT is a tier three talent. So you need ten points to get there, and if you are hitcapped, as I am, those ten points are: 5/5 Lethal Shots, 3/3 Careful Aim… and then 2/5 Mortal Shots.
And my rotation is: Serpent Sting kept up > Kill Shot (if available) > Arcane Shot > Multi-Shot > Steady Shot. Pop pet cooldowns (BW, Kill Command, etc.) and Rapid Fire when available.
@ Francisco – Oh, and forgot to mention: if you have 30% crit or more you only need one point in GftT. And Survival Instincts gives you some wiggle room here. With no buffs I am a little under 24% crit. Toss a feral druid into my party and stuff like Gift of the Wild, Blessing of Kings, etc. and I am well over 30%.
I haven’t been able to do the math myself but a lot of people are reporting that having 2/2 points in GftT is not worth it, the DPS gain from it is too minimal.
Although, I would definitely 100% recommend 2/2 for all leveling hunters or fresh 80s!
@ Noah – this is offtopic but have I mentioned that I always look forward to your comments?
Ms. Pike,
I’m glad you posted this and spread the info to many that shy away from sites like EJ and the like.
This will help increase the performance of the coumminity while they raid. I know you’re not a min/max type player, but most people aren’t. So it’s nice to see someone have fun and bring other like minded players together.
Keep up the effort and I look forward to more blogs.
Jinza
@Pike – What, really?? Thanks! 🙂
I thought I just nattered on and grumped about too much :p
I have been raiding as BM in Ulduar up to General Vezax and I dont see any problem with spec as I compare it to our other “Hardcore” Survival hunter, I do beat him on some encounters and yes we are on Top 5, well obvious fights that favour spell casters like Hodir can be a different matter.
Even on Mimiron my pet can easily survive the AoE’s through AoE heals and Mend pet, although if a Bomb hits melee before he is topped up and I forget to call it back it becomes a problem 🙁
What I have seen so far is that most fights in there favour different Classes and Specs, I have always been on 1/2/3 top spot on Razorscale,kalorgan and freya (even the crazy cat lady/Auriya sometimes).
The spec your are spotting atm Pike I have been for a long time but mana issues have forced me to spend the two points in invigoration instead. I use all the available shots and have seen that invigoration is a primary source of my mana return.
On saying all this I am still not happy to what they have done to BM spec, weird enough is how Survival is getting another Shot (Black Arrow) and giving a spec that really define the Hunter Class in WoW “nothing” I know they can do better than that.
Hmmm,
Im similarly geared to you, and i cant put out that much dps with survival. I just don’t get survival i guess. I had always been bm until the nerf and i got so frustrated i went to surv just to try something, anything.
But lately ive been frustrated with my inability to make survival work for me. Perhaps its time to switch back to BM.
Ok, so I’ve avoided SV like the plague, going to MM with the big BM nerf and then finally going back to my roots about a week before 3.1. I noticed a slight increse in my DPS then, but not much. And it was really good to be back to BM. Yugito, my cat, had especially missed getting to enrage and seriously kick some butt (and maybe live through more fights again). The problem was the rest of the hunters that I raid with were also getting better. So it wasn’t enough. And when I was good, I was *good* but it wasn’t consistant.
So I took your example and switched to the EJ build which was similar to what I’d been running with but had a few points different here and there. I have yet to test in on a dummy or in a 25 man (that’s tonight) since I respecced 10 minutes before heading into 10 man Naxx last night. But the difference seems to be enough that I was #1 on the dps charts most of the night and our main tank was whispering me, shocked, about the increase from my usual performance.
So thanks for convincing me to do it right. It really does make that much of a difference. 🙂
Rawr! Yay, woo, Elitist Jerks’ imbatronic 53/11/7 spec is so amazing! Woo! Yeah, except my currently-on-haitus unblog dabbled with and published that spec months before EJ even decided to try it! Boo! Pff! Ssss!
That said, I’ve tried it again recently and I’m not so sure it’s such a great spec for Ulduar given the number of mechanical mobs dotted around. Maybe if you have it as the off-spec it could work but I have that set to a more PvP-centric Survival spec. I can’t be doing with Survival for PvE but in battlegrounds it’s so giggly delicious!
a raiding hunter that does BM…. Can I hug you? I get to buff my wittle snuggums-wuggums and have him/her tear off faces? I like u 😀
Just curious if you are still using this spec. I have been leveling my hunter with it and it is amazing. Just wondering how it holds up in ToC and ICC